Here is the interview I did with Green Party leader and New minister of State for Food and Horticulture here in Ireland, Trevor Sargent. It was published recently in the Irish Examiner's farming supplement, which comes out every Thursday. Nothing about organics actually, as that was kept over for the organic diary, which was published last thursday.

Oliver Moore: Being from Dublin, and with the Green Party having such an urban base�

Trevor Sargent: Hang on a second, are you labouring under the misapprehension? Aren�t you aware that half of the fresh produce in the country is produced in north county Dublin? There are also a lot of lamb, sheep and dry stock farmers there too. And, for the record, I�m not a city person - where I live is a serious food producing area

OM: So you have an automatic connection to farming�

TS: I do, also through my family in Longford and Meath, I would have been involved with farming during my summer holidays

OM: You also do some gardening, if I�m not mistaken?

TS: I do: I grow as much of my food as possible in a small suburban garden

OM: Tell me about your new role. What�s your remit?

TS: My responsibilities cover the development of the food industry throughout the country. That entails monitoring the food industry headings under the national development plan. The specific aspects include the horticulture sector, including plant health and organic production, though of course organic production goes far beyond horticulture, as the biggest growth in that sector is in livestock.


The early retirement scheme is also in my area. Insuring that farming has a future means encouraging young people to get involved in farming. This scheme can�t be made attractive enough, for somebody to let their farm be farmed by a younger person, when they get to an age when they could enjoy a slightly easier life, given that farming is such a hard life.


I also have responsibility for livestock breeding. A particular interest of mine is in establishing more abattoirs locally. Animal feedstuffs are another important area of mine.

OM: That�s a fairly broad remit. This latter area is an interesting one.

TS: It has an international dimension. Currently, we are relying on imported feedstuffs, even though much of our livestock is produced for export�we have to insure that these imports are of a standard to get the best market opportunities in our exports. So we need a full debate on the growing influence of the biotech industry in the production of GM animal feed, given that our markets are very keen to ensure GM-free produce. Examples include Co-Op Italia, and many others� Carrefour, Auchan, in the UK there�s UK Teascos, M&S, Sainsburys, Budgens stores. They all have high quality labels that require meat and dairy produce to be fed on certified GM-free feed.

OM: But we do sell meat to these countries, and these retailers you�ve mentioned are some of the biggest players in these countries. So is it that we don�t get to sell meat to them or that we are at risk?

TS: I think we�re at risk. Because at the moment, we don�t declare that the food is fed with GM. So it is taken as read that if it�s not declared as GM it must be non-GM. So we are managing to get away without having to certify it as GM free at the moment. But I�m seeing a trend internationally, where consumers are requiring far more upfront certification. In that regard, we need to be prepared for that. We have such a good grass producing climate in this country. We should be taking advantage, and insuring the greatest possible self-reliance in feed from our cereal sector, and making sure the supply of GM-free feed is assured.

OM: What is the current status of availability of GM-free feed?

TS: It is available. There has been a meeting between suppliers and the 3rd largest feed supplier in the world, the Brazilian company Imcopa. They were assuring farming organisations they have sufficient feed for the whole of Europe, should the whole of Europe decide it wanted it .They certainly would supply Ireland

OM: I suppose we then get into a whole set of other arguments, about GM, food miles, regulations in Brazil�

TS: Well this is the crossroads we are at. We need to capitalise on the high quality reputation we have, and that is to be found in guaranteeing that we are GM free. We need to both maintain and enhance our reputation. We need to look at what we stand to loose, not just the costs. We need to make the best, long term decisions. 15 dollars per tonne is the price of guaranteeing GM-free soya, according to Impoca. We need to also work at import substitution, to make sure that the money goes to our own cereal sector, rather than exporting the money. We also need to maintain our extensive production, so that we can rely as much as possible on grass feeding�it�s about playing to our natural advantages.

OM: What about the recent Teagasc report on GM, which pitches the cost of staying GM-free as somewhere between �7 and �42million, depending on the scenario considered?

TS: I want to meet with Teagasc, to see how they arrived at that figure. Because it�s very important that we take decisions based on all the information, and longer term contexts, and what potential we have to avoid costs. I think it�s fair and wise to ask those questions. Previously, let�s remember, we were all advised feeding meat and bone meal was a good cost effective course of action. We found to our cost that it was anything but. I think we should learn lessons from the past.

OM: Maybe it is the case that the scope of research Teagasc can do, while being good in its own scientific area, might not be able to take into account the market, socio-cultural realities and so on.

TS: Well I would say that (is the case), because the previous programme for government, when it came to GM, talked about taking into account both health and environmental criteria. It didn�t talk about taking into account markets. From an agricultural point of view, it�s vital that we take into account the market�. there are GM-free zones all over Europe, including Ireland�.

OM: But what about the legal status of these zones?

TS: There are ways around it. EU rules state that you need to prove that it�s not possible for GM and non GM to co-exist, before you can declare an area GM free. There�s grounds for that in Ireland�.Likewise, you can, if there�s an agreement in an area, where all the growers undertake not to grow GM, you can de facto declare the area GM free. And it would be, I would argue, in the interest of farming in the area to capitalise on their selling point in doing so. The fact that councils have declared their area GM free indicates that there is popular support for declaring an area GM free. There are ways around the WTO rules, (rules) that have been seriously influenced by the biotech industry, but I think people need to be able to determine their futures.

OM: You mentioned at the start that you were from a horticultural region of Dublin. What is the current situation regarding horticulture?

TM: In particular, they are the ones under the most pressure - so many of them are under so much pressure that they are going out of business. This is bad news not only for these farming families, but also for us nationally, because our food security is further diminished. Food and energy are intrinsically linked together. The price of energy is a large part of the food production costs. A grower in my own area, producing parsnips and leeks, has found that his energy costs have more than quadrupled in the last 5 years. And yet, he�s not getting anything more for his produce. He�s under more and more pressure every day to keep going. If we could reduce the food miles, and have more access to his produce rather than just depending on supermarkets, then there would be the option for him to continue beyond what he is currently doing

OM: So is part of your remit also farmers� markets?

TS: Very much so. There needs to be a number of measures in this job, to insure you are making progress, and the number of farmers� markets is one such measure. So I will be meetings county managers, local authorities, public representatives and officials, so that they will recognise that they have a role to play, to insure that their area has as many farmers� markets as possible.

OM: As you are aware, different local authorities have had different attitudes to farmers� markets ranging from positive to negative.

TS: Very much so, both your paper and your strong Munster readership have been leading the country in this regard. You have managed to create the association between say, west cork and gourmet food...

OM: But why is it that in Ennis they�re fined for putting up signs saying the farmers� markets is on, and in Leitrim they are funded for putting up signs saying it�s on?

TS: There is a clear inconsistency�so there should be consistency in how our markets are developed and advertised, notwithstanding regional branding diversity

OM: How will farmers� markets accommodate the very large growers in your part of the country?

TS: (These producers) are in many ways designing their operations around supermarket interests - to the point of just having one or two crops�maybe farmers� market can help these producers, if only in relation to market research. Maybe it�d be a small part of their sales, but it might provide a lot of useful information for them�for example, one thing that went down quite well, though it would be a small part of his overall business, was the selling at farmers� markets of Brussels Sprouts still on the stalk. That�s something of a unique selling point, it keeps the product fresh while people also like the idea...there needs to be some reaching out from the organisers of the farmers� markets; maybe to take delivery of some of the produce for markets from these farmers, and undertaking to sell the produce on a commission basis. There needs to be some way of connecting farmers and farmers� markets, and that requires a bit of lateral thinking�